So, this is what I have been talking about. This is what I’ve been exploring for all these months, and trying to figure out for myself. This is the big picture for me. When I’ve been talking about Junto, it’s not the platform I’m really talking about – it’s the conversation. Having the conversation is what matters. Below is what the conversation looks like.
Here is where we started. Unfortunately my video camera decided to just stop functioning at the outset, so all you hear is my voice. Which maybe is kind of cool in itself, metaphorically. The person with whom I’m speaking, @jazzmann91, is someone who has been reading this blog for a while, and we interact on Twitter as well. He said something to me last night in a tweet, and I suggested we take it to the next level and have a conversation. Unfortunately junto.cc was being buggy with the audio, so we took it to Skype and I recorded it with Jing, and then uploaded it to YouTube.
So this is the Twitter conversation that led to this live conversation:
@venessamiemis: salvation is hot.
@jazzmann91: .@VenessaMiemis LOL… is it? salvation is subjugation to a power more responsible than you.
@venessamiemis: @jazzmann91 not when you realize you are your own savior.
@jazzmann91: @VenessaMiemis true, but doesn’t the word salvation imply an other. Also, what are you saving yourself from?
@venessamiemis: no other. save from fear. RT @jazzmann91 true, but doesn’t the word salvation imply an other. Also, what are you saving yourself from?
@jazzmann91: @VenessaMiemis excellent. I’m with you. What’s your biggest fear? Mine is success. I seem to avoid it like the plague. 😦
@venessamiemis: mine: http://bit.ly/pDmYg RT @jazzmann91 I’m with you. What’s your biggest fear? Mine is success. I seem to avoid it like the plague. 😦
@venessamiemis: @jazzmann91 i’d love to get in a room with you for a few hours and share worldviews.
So he agreed!
And here’s part one. As an entry point to the conversation, I referenced a comment he had left on my blog that I found very hurtful, and I wanted him to explain what he meant when he said it. Here is the comment he made, and if you scroll down you can read my initial response.
So basically, we start by clarifying ourselves and finding shared understanding, and creating an environment where we agree that it is acceptable to just be upfront and honest with each other. And it turns out, there was just a misunderstanding, and there was no need for me to have been hurt or angry. Instead, I could have just said, “Can you explain what you mean by that?”
Lesson: Communication is our biggest challenge.
Then we said, well, being open and honest makes sense. But it’s scary, because being open means being vulnerable to be hurt, and we run from pain and fear. BUT. Maybe there comes a point where you just have to say to yourself, the hell with it. I’m going to be real, I’m going to be me, and live from my own value system, and I really don’t care what anyone else thinks. And to not just say “I don’t care what you think” in a mean, defiant kind of way. And not in an apathetic way either. But really just knowing that you are who you are, and that that is enough. (click to watch)
Here we talked about worldviews, and that we are all different, and there is nothing wrong with that. That each of us can choose how to live our lives, and no one is right or wrong. We each need to find our own inner compass, to figure out what drives us, what motivates us, what excites us, and just do it. I mentioned Seth Godin, who is packaged as a “marketing guru,” but he’s just a guy who understands that people are inspired when they find their own path. Seth is like a beacon of light. If you’re unaware of his blog, it’s worth checking out. He is consistent. He writes a short post every day that just makes you go “huh.” The only book I’ve read by him is his most recent, Linchpin. Highly inspirational to me. You can also follow via Twitter – , though he doesn’t interact, just posts.
So then we said, so ok, if all that matters is your own personal awareness, what do you then do with that? And the answer is not to then force your worldview on someone else, it’s just to be a model for what you’re talking about.
Lesson: Live your truth. Be the change you want to see.
Here we just expanded on this theme of how to live the thing you’re talking about. (p.s. i’m well aware that i say “like”, “you know what i mean?”, and “you know?” A LOT and that i speak very fast. i am working on those things.) We talked about being a good neighbor, and how to reach out to people. We talked about isolation and fear and connection, and taking that leap.
Lesson: Making an effort to reach out and really KNOW other people is challenging and scary, but worth it.
Here we talked more about isolation and how to ask for help. We talked about how everyone is on a path, but some people are confused and so they do things that are hurtful. In my passion, I said that some people are “vile” and “subhuman,” which was wrong to say, and I got called on it. And I apologized. And I didn’t mean to say it like that, I was just trying to say that the range of human behavior is broad, but in the end, we’re all still people. I realize that this is part of our issue as humans, that we label each other, and that divides us. Incidentally, I later refer to my husband, and even that title is starting to annoy me. So what’s a “husband”? What exactly does that mean? What imposed rules do I now need to follow in order to interact with him in the “right” way? So, I’m not even going to say that anymore. It’s going to be something like ‘significant other’ or ‘life partner.’ Then I mention again about the importance of creating an environment that can act as a judgement-free zone between people.
Lesson: We’re all in this together.
This part was about listening, and the idea that we all have a voice, and often, we are all shouting at each other, but not listening. We talked about the web, and how it allows us to express ourselves and meet like minded people, and have “The Conversation.” And that’s great. But there is so much repetition in the questions, and we keep packaging it and selling it to each other. Why do we do this?
Lesson: When conversations get commodified, we are lost.
So where does the conversation go? What exactly is it we’re talking about? What are we going to DO? What are we doing as people?
So now with the web, we can be the media. We can show. Show that change doesn’t have to be scary, that you can take action and get things done, connect with others, and make a positive difference in the world. If you want to. And that is leadership. We can be leaders.
Lesson: Leadership is not control. It’s empowerment.
We have a choice of how to live in the craziness. When you put yourself out there, and just BE your authentic self, and do things for others selflessly, without expecting anything in return, it is like magic. There is a wonder to it. We are so suspicious of each other and distrustful because we have been hurt and lied to SO MANY TIMES, that it takes A LOT to even consider the idea that it’s possible that there is still good in the world.
We also feel the need to be able to pin everything down and describe it, and pull it apart into pieces. (i.e. Reductionism) But what if this is not the only way to look at the world? Can we adopt multiple views? Can we also embrace Holism? Can it be nondualistic? Can we get away from binary thinking , as if everything has to be either this or that? (I’m using all these words, but they are just referential and contextual. They’re labels and concepts. It’s not even about those words. Call it whatever you want to call it so it makes sense for you.)
What if we can adopt a “both, and” type of mentality? Can we transcend the need to be right all the time, and instead embrace the capacity to see things from many different angles? Is it not intelligent behavior to be able to see things clearly through more than one lens?
How do you take the conversation to the next level, i.e. action. The example I reference is charity:water. It is the most interesting framework I have seen so far on how to launch a campaign and actually get stuff done in a networked world. If you look at their site, they SHOW you what they are doing, and how you can help if you’re interested. I think they have really figured out how to use the web to get people excited and get people involved. They have so many videos you can watch of what they are doing, so it’s not like donating to an organization where you’re not really quite sure where your money went and if it even made a difference. They give you so many different options of how to help, depending on the level of involvement you want to have. It’s all transparently right there. And of course it’s not the only thing going on in the world that’s working. There is tons of stuff. All I was trying to say is that it’s an example of where the web fits in, and how to “package” it in a way that is easy to comprehend and support.
Now, whatever your personal initiative is, you can use the web to really make it accessible to others who care, and the people who care will seek you and find you. It’s the whole “If you build it, he will come” thing. Seriously. It’s not just a metaphor. If you put it out there, with intention and clarity, the people you need in order to make it happen will come to you. I mean, look at this blog. Why are you here? Why are you reading it? How did you find it? I don’t advertise here. There’s no banners. I write a post, I share it with my friends on Facebook and put it on Twitter, and that’s it. All that I have is the message. Apparently you like the message too, because you are here.
And here’s the last part of the conversation, and then the connection got dropped. Which is kind of funny, but it’s just like a “to be continued….” type thing. The conversation never really ends, because our questions never end, and our desire to connect never ends. It’s just an ongoing process, all the time.
The part we were talking about in between the recording was about Square, and my view about why this kind of thing is so important, and why mobile is going to be HUGE. I mean, it’s already huge, but not everyone sees it yet. And then we pretty much came full circle to the idea of the open source solution on the web that is needed at this point. This is the “next big thing.” It’s just a place where we can engage in the global conversation, put ourselves out there, reach out for help, and receive it. Boom. Like magic. 🙂
Wow, Venessa and jazzmann, that is an amazing piece of co-creative transformation. Amazing to watch from afar. I wish that more people avail themselves of a similar experience. An emerging and varied global unconference has started today in my universe.
Had an amazing sponti Junto with two guys who happened to skype chat me at the same time. Let’s talk all three? OK. Ideas that spread, win.
Venessa Miemis said:
it was such a relief to get this recorded, so at least we can reference these comments and flesh them out more. writing this post made me dizzy, like standing in a funhouse of mirrors. we’re having the conversation about the conversation, then i write a post describing the conversation. it’s like…. yeesh, how far down does this rabbit hole go?
Scott Lewis said:
Wow. I am honored. I had no idea you were taking it to this level. I really should have shaved. 😉
Thank you Venessa! You are one of the new leaders that the world has been clamoring for and you’re forthright style is truly inspiring. I’m just glad I could listen and add my two cents here and there.
Venessa Miemis said:
i’m so glad we talked. i’ve been wondering about your views for a long time. i learned a lot from you during the conversation, and you helped me clarify my own thoughts on things. you’re definitely a great listener, no doubt about that! sorry if i dominated, i get myself so worked up, i forget to breathe.
working on it!
Janet Vanderhoof said:
In order to have an authentic conversation, their must be a willing to allow the other to express without an agenda. The listening is such a big factor. People are so concerned about being heard that they may forget to share. Conversation cannot be onesided. I was brought up to be honest. My mother always expressed herself to a fault, unsensored. So now, although I tend to be authentic in nature, also very trusting, I am conscious of realizing words can hurt as well.
I can see you are on a spiritual journey. This is your path and no need to apologize how or what way you do it. Because if there was a path already you would be on the wrong path. You are creating as you go. This is an exciting time of your life. You are hearing the call and most of all answering YES!
Venessa Miemis said:
that is precisely how it feels.
what’s strange to me is the challenge i’m getting from some people. i’m not trying to convince anyone of anything or forcing myself on them, i’m just expressing what feels right to me. i’m not asking for agreement. i’m welcoming resonance and dialogue. apparently this is uncommon. but how fun?! for me, being committed to just one worldview is exhausting, because when something happens that doesn’t fit, you have an inner conflict. so what happens when you can adopt many perspectives? it’s just such a relief. you can choose to just integrate that into your toolbox.
When there is no Ego or complete openness – attentiveness, everything makes it’s own sense and more. So one can begin to see light and sense power. This, just from listening, hearing. At the same time there is joy & desire, a deepened sense of mind or reality followed by an urge to respond, to complete.
mind takes to mind and (if all goes well) action is taken collectively or with advisement.
Everything may be a tool; some things are just tools to make tools. Blue prints call forth, specific material, tools and craftspeople.
Even a blueprint is provisional, at least until the thing is complete. A word is a thing too.
As for “worldview,” you have one. It too is provisional. Do not play false with it, just let it emerge.
Janet Vanderhoof said:
There is no one way. And you know the words can never express the depth of the experience, but may point to it. This is a process and will not have an end hopefully. When you are a seeker and on a spiritual journey there is no end. When we can make it part of our daily lives and realize that it can be experienced while folding laundry or making dinner, it becomes very fullfilling. Letting go is very important too and that I believe you are doing in observing your blogs and videos. You will notice when one door closes another opens, that is the journey that is the delight, that is life.
Spiro Spiliadis said:
This may turn into a lengthy comment so bear with me, i’ve only read up to part 1 and just finished viewing the first video. I feel compelled to share what i felt while viewing this video on a conscious level.
What came to mind to discuss is the notion of subconscious reaction to conscious action.
Scott’s comment on that blog post, i recall clearly because i reacted to it, but i am conscious enough to know not to create a chain “reaction” in other words, we all have tendencies, and those tendencies are driven by the subconscious mind, what we all share in common is a deep rooted system of traits that we are evolving from.
The planet is healing and healing is part of letting go, what Scott did was not right or wrong, nor was in necessary to apologize.
but what we do as a society is judge on our subconscious reactions, and then return to the habit of the subconscious mind, we are asleep to our conversations to others that reflect ourselves.
Scott’s reaction then followed Venessa’s reaction, that’s what we do, we REACT, we don’t act on the conscious ability we have and harmonize our life.
I’ve said that we don’t change we only unfold, this isn’t some fact it’s a philosophy that when times like this occur in your life, you have to see the good in it, Scott, let go, he allowed whatever was buried deep within him to come up and let go of,
without being conscious of your subconscious reactions, the deep hurts and pains, and you don’t let them go when they surface, then they go back into the abyss,
this is how the planet is changing, we are telling our hurts and stories, but we don’t have to broadcast it more then what you see inside of yourself,
It all fits together, Venessa and Scott attracted this moment, they went through the tension, and then came through inspired, it’s the energy behind what has come from this conversing.
Venessa Miemis said:
nicely put, spiro. it’s been fun to see you come out of your shell over the months, and the depth of your comments grows every time. and i want to say “thank you” for putting ‘unfold’ out there. i’ve been thinking about that since you mentioned it before, and i really like how it feels.
before, i always had this sense that the “path to enlightenment” was on levels, and i didn’t like that, because it felt like people who were on higher levels were better than me, and that made me feel bad. but if it’s actually an unfolding, an expanding, a becoming more of just yourself….. that’s awesome! the further we explore ourselves, the more we unfold and show our beauty, like a flower that opens in the morning. and once you take that initial leap, it’s not scary anymore. it’s exciting to see who you really who, who you’ve been hiding all these years. and you kind of amaze yourself. you’re like… what the hell…. i AM worthy. why did i think i wasn’t?
we all are.
Spiro Spiliadis said:
Some more thoughts,
Vulnerability again a subconsicous reaction instead of a conscious reaction, we need to change the feelings behind words by seeing them not as good or bad, but as necessities to our harmonization as individuals and a whole.
Vulnerability is something that helps you to release it in the time it surfaces.
I’ve healed because of vulnerability.
I’ts part of the process, never ever be ashamed to let go,
you can’t control others reactions to your own reactions.
but you can be conscious to your reaction, the conscious to the others as well.
That’s when listening kicks in for you.
Another healing was listening and being for an other person.
Healing takes place through conversation.
Venessa Miemis said:
totally agreed. the way i think of it is “Becoming the Witness”.
there is the voice in your head that’s always babbling at you like a crazy person, and then there’s a silent one that is just listening and observing.
we get confused that we are the voice, when we are actually the witness.
Pingback: Storytelling Social Media Marketing PR Business & Technology Curated Stories May 17, 2010
This post got me wathcing and reading it randomly all day long. It’s a really interesting conversation and touches a lot of points on what needs to change in ourselves to make an open collaboration culture happen. I think it would be great if this conversation could be developed into some post as a guidelines or a remainder of what we need to take into consideration to nurture and create this collaboration culture.
I see the future of the net as an open platform where everyone can collaborate and give something of value to other people whether it’s for profit or not. For this to happen we need to be prepared to be open to new ideas and points of views, but we also need to be innovative and able to connect and develop ideas no matter where in the world we are located.
I’ve seen a couple of examples of this, one is Pio.la which is a unconference platform that was created by people from different countries. Junto is going that way and I really like the idea of it being the conversation rather than the platform, because the value is in there.
The conversation had so many more interesting points that I need to think of and maybe write something about it later.
I love your blog and been reading it for a while now, but never participated in the comments before. It’s awesome!
Venessa Miemis said:
thanks for joining the conversation. 🙂 making the conversation into a post sounds like a great idea….
want to do it?
Yes I can give it a shot. Will listen to it again, take notes and write it down. Hopefully it will be ready soon.
Venessa Miemis said:
this makes a lot of sense to me:
[audio src="http://www.enlightennext.org/evolutionaries/free-downloads/ac-higher-we.mp3" /]
Natalie Sisson said:
I won’t go so deep as the others but I just wanted to say that I too am reading the Linchpin from Seth Godin and it is truly inspiring. It puts me back on track when I feel the `resistance’ coming now that I’m on my new path of my own business and following my passion.
Keep up the fantastic insights and discovery
Venessa Miemis said:
site build it said:
Hi there.. Well after reading this I thought I’d leave a little note. Obviously I’m giong to have to come back when I’m not so rushed to check out some more of your posts or threads, whatever you call em here lol ! Thanks…
Sepp Hasslberger said:
You’ve got the vision, Venessa, and your goal is worthy:
Making us talk to each other without judgement, without having to evaluate what the other just said and doing it in a way where it’s available to others to know, is a simple but hugely influential change from what has been happening so far, and an absolute pre-condition for bringing to life (unfolding?) the consciousness and intelligence of our species.
Thank you for recording and putting up this conversation for us to get an idea of what this is about and where it may be directed.
Venessa Miemis said:
thanks sepp. i love that you say “unfolding” – that is one of my new mantras. it’s not so much “progress” or “growth”, which feels linear, but “unfolding”, which feels expansive.
i like that that word feels nonhierarchical. it’s not like there’s an endpoint that we’re competing for. each of us is responsible for our own self-discovery and unfolding process.
Sepp Hasslberger said:
Yes Venessa, and I might add that “unfolding” is also emphasizing the emergent nature of this development. No one has planned its details. Our collective intelligence just unfolds… it develops with each and every conversation we have.
Tiffany Barrett said:
If I had a penny for every time I came here.. Amazing writing.
Jon Husband said:
We live in a world that to date due to the accumulation of societal structures and events has unfolded to bring us to a place where established and ‘official’ institutions and positions govern us top-down.
Venessa and others have over the past decade said in many ways .. “the Internet changes everything”. Yes, it does, and will. We are the world .. not the institutions, not the official positions, not the policies that are implemented onto us.
In governing societies and organizations, we clearly need consensus-building and decision-making processes and structures. Many useful ones (Future Search, Open Space, Participative Strategy Development, etc.) have been experimented with n a small scale, most often in not-for-profit or other non-or-less commercial venues (community development, interest-based groups and movements, etc.
It will be very interesting to watch (and participate in) how the use of the Web unfolds with human connection and voice at its center and edges, and it will be critical to work incessantly at trying to ensure that corporatism and soft-authoritarian government do not co-opt and control its use such that the evolution / unfolding of the deepest quality-of-life interests of human society(ies) are not forestalled by those sure-to-be-hard-fought attempts at control.
It would, in my opinion, be wonderful if over time we arrive at the point where we truly can believe and see unfolding “a dynamic two-way flow of power and authority base on knowledge, trust, credibility and a focus on results, enabled by interconnected people and technology”. Facebook’s walk-back of its privacy settings seems to me to be a decent early example of this principle in action, in the hands of its users.
Human-centered consensus and governance decisions seems to me something worth fighting hard for, against the other probable outcome of being forced, explicitly and implicitly, to become compliant and passive consumers of what we will be told are the ways to live and work.
Venessa Miemis said:
thanks jon. i just spoke with a shereef at BetterMeans.com today on skype about their Open Enterprise business model, which revolves around a consensus based decision making process. have you checked it out? http://bettermeans.com/front/?page_id=306
Nick Dodge said:
emergentbydesign.com’s done it once again. Incredible article.
Patricia Blackwell said:
If only I had a quarter for every time I came here.. Incredible read.
Milo Guthrie said:
Very interesting writing. Truely.
Pingback: Guidelines for Engaging in Generative Dialogue (a.k.a. The Conversation) « emergent by design
Pingback: A Pay It Forward Business Model [in transition to a new global society] « emergent by design
dry erase board paint reviews said:
Choose darker woods, like walnut or cherry, for a den or a bedroom.
We’d set them up on the baking sheet or other surface. The other side of the easel is a chalkboard,
so we also included the MALA chalk in our